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Discussion Forums - The Hendrix Group
HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsOil Refinery Co...Oil Refinery Co...LPG BulletLPG Bullet
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9/7/2006 9:00 AM
 
We have quite no of LPG bullets commissioned in 1970-72.The shell material is A201 FBQ(Fire box qaulity plate) without any corrosion allowance.The plate thickness is 16.0 mm only and the design pressure is 13kg/sq.cm. Sofar,no major failure were experienced in these bullets except internal pitting due to presence of H2S. These bullets are being regularly inspected as per SMPV rules once in 5 years. Is is advisable to put these bullets in service since it is 35 years old?Is there any problem expected due to wet H2S/Caustic attck since the original plate is not as clean to resist SSC/HIC etc. Is there similar type of bullets are in service anywhere? Kindly share your experience in this regard.
 
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9/8/2006 9:00 AM
 
Krish Your LPG Bullets are 35 years old with nil C.A (Corrosion Allowance). 5 year SMPV(U) Rules 1981 statutory certification if it had been done properly by the inspection company (whom you entrusted the job) and if the inspection company had properly estimated the depth, number of pitted areas and locations in the vessel (by thorough pit mapping of the profiles of pitting seen) , you may have to give discounting factor for the remaining thickness in shell plates for the pitting seen in the vessel. Your question did not give this detail on the extent of pitting estimated / evaluated by the inspection company. Taking the pitting factor into account, you may have to re-work out the revised design value and probably revised set pressure for SRV. For this, based on the pitting estimated, the inspection company should have suggested this revised design pressure and revised set pressure for SRV. If that is not done yet, you may have to do that again and apply to CCE Nagpur for this revised design rated value. Frequency of inspection periodicity will be decided by CCE Nagpur depending on this revised value and the amount of pitting reported in the last 2 inspection done for each Bullet. A 201 FBQ - original 16 mm thickness- may stil have service life at probably lower rated design conditions than the original rated design conditions - since you may not have evaluated the extent of pitting, pitting depth, pitting area, pitted locations. If you follow the above approach you can operate the 35 year vessel safely at lower design conditions. Pitting due to wet H2S will continue. Frequecy for inspection will have to be decided based on the calculation done and revised values. We have inspected >35 year old ammonia spheres for some plants. Your situation is near parallel. If care in testing to the ASTM specification and standards had been done for N.D.T inspection by the inspection company, to critically assess a 35 year old vessel with Nil C.A, ( for the certification responsibility vested) using an old vessel may not pose any limitation. Trust this answers your querry. C.V.Srinivasan Nishi Engineers Pvt Ltd India Sept 08, 2006 E-mail: nishi@vsnl.com >We have quite no of LPG bullets commissioned in 1970-72.The >shell material is A201 FBQ(Fire box qaulity plate) without >any corrosion allowance.The plate thickness is 16.0 mm only >and the design pressure is 13kg/sq.cm. > >Sofar,no major failure were experienced in these bullets >except internal pitting due to presence of H2S. These >bullets are being regularly inspected as per SMPV rules once >in 5 years. > >Is is advisable to put these bullets in service since it is >35 years old?Is there any problem expected due to wet >H2S/Caustic attck since the original plate is not as clean >to resist SSC/HIC etc. > >Is there similar type of bullets are in service anywhere? > >Kindly share your experience in this regard.
 
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9/9/2006 9:00 AM
 
Krish, You have some wise advice from C.V.Srinivasan, a knowledgable and frequent contributer to this forum. A reasonable and complete inspection of these 35 year old vessels will give you some kind of idea how much usefull life you may have left. I do not understand why this projection was not included in the inspection report as it would be in the USA. Of course, we all know that, aside from love and taxes, nothing lasts forever....... I also have a suggestion...... As the vessel inspections become more frequent and costly, balance the cost of inspection against the cost of new LPG vessels (with an increase corrosion allowance). You may find, like I have, that the price of LPG bullets is very cost competitive and that even used bullets are acceptable in some applications. (in the USA there seems to be many available). These are my suggestions and thoughts only.... Regards -MJC
 
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9/11/2006 9:00 AM
 
Thanks to Mr.C.V.Srinivasan & MC for their valuable comments.The max depth of pitting noticed is 2-3 mm scattered all around at the bottom mid section only.Remaining portion are having max of 1.0 mm deep pitting.As Mr.Srinivasan pointed out the opearting pressure of these LPG bullets are around 9.0 kg.sq.cm only against the design pressure of 13.0 kg/sq/cm. regards,
 
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9/11/2006 9:00 AM
 
Krish Thank you for the feed back on the pitting seen in your bullets. Your A 201 FBQ plates have been designed with Nil = C.A. Hence with pitting of Max. 3 mm (whether isolated / sporadaic or spread over many plates - whether at the bottom or top segment plates or at dished ends) will have to be taken into account for revised design set pressure and design set pressure for SRV also. Operating pressure is always lower compared to design conditions. While calculating operating pressure is never given consideration. I would suggest : You have to apply with max. pitting seen and revise your ratings for the LPG Bullets - with formal design calculation / set pressure certified by a III Party Inspection Company and get a formal approval of the revised design conditions from CCE, Nagpur, GOi. Operating the plant with this well spread pitting of 2 to 3 mm (even at a lower operating pressure of 9.0 KSC) is a "risk" from your end. This needs re-rating with formal approval from CCE authorities. Why the inspection company who certified your bullets with this pitting did not do this? I suggest that you propose or work out all design calculations / revised drawings / revised set pressure for SRV with all inspection records done in the last 2 latest inspections as early as possible. If the inspection company whom you engaged is not an accredited III Party Inspection Company (from CCE's accreditation list) i.e., to verify all inspection records and perform the design calculation for revised rating , you may have to do the job all over again. Assuming or Ignoraance on your part that since LPG operating pressure is lower than design pressure, you can continue to run bullet with this pitting is at your own risk. I am sure that you would fully recognize the risks in operaing a bullet with pitting and without revised ratings from your end. Trust this help you to assess the need for quick evaluation and have formal revised ratings for the Bullets. C.V.Srinivasan Nishi Engineers Pvt Ltd India Sept 11, 2006 E-mail: nishi@vsnl.com Thanks to Mr.C.V.Srinivasan & MC for their valuable >comments.The max depth of pitting noticed is 2-3 mm >scattered all around at the bottom mid section >only.Remaining portion are having max of 1.0 mm deep >pitting.As Mr.Srinivasan pointed out the opearting pressure >of these LPG bullets are around 9.0 kg.sq.cm only against >the design pressure of 13.0 kg/sq/cm. > >regards,
 
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